We still have questions, but hands-on demo ends with emphatic exclamation point.
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Wireless Oculus VR grows up with new, incredible “Santa Cruz” demos
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Ah, man, that does suck. PC gamers have a very important decision to make in life: get married and put your PC second (or third or fourth), or don't get married and be able to game as you wish on the PC of your dreams. For me, easy: don't get married.I know, it kind of sucks. I am a PC gamer, but my hardware is a few years old so despite playing like Arkham Knight and GTA:V fine it's a little weak for VR. Convincing the wife I need a $300 video card is one thing. Convincing her I need $300 card and a $500ish headset is another.
By the way, I might have the perfect girlfriend. She actually enjoys watching me game. (But it might be a ploy to entrap me eventually into marriage. Gotta be careful...)
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Both are standalone. Santa Cruz and its controllers has positional tracking like its big brother Rift (although, done differently using inside-out tracking), Oculus Go essentially is a Gear VR with built-in phone hardware and tracks rotations only.
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I'm not surprised they set up the room to look "normal". If you consider how inside-out tracking works, you desperately require contrast and parallax in order to determine your position and pose. Had they put you in the middle of the warehouse with a smooth featureless concrete floor, the tracking system would fail miserably. Likewise, a room evenly lit with white walls, plain carpet, and no decorations would also cause the tracker to struggle.
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In my VR experience, it doesn't really matter how realistic the graphics are. You still feel like you're completely immersed in the world.
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"Every major home VR system on the market today (meaning, Oculus Rift, HTC Vive, and PlayStation VR) requires an external camera or sensor to keep tabs on headsets and hand controllers. Inside-out tracking, on the other hand, puts active sensors on the headset itself."
This is incorrect. The HTC Vive has never used an external camera for tracking. The "sensor" Lighthouses for the HTC Vive are also not sensors, but rather provide information that is tracked by the control wands and the headset.
Please read https://gizmodo.com/this-is-how-valve-s ... 1705356768
This is incorrect. The HTC Vive has never used an external camera for tracking. The "sensor" Lighthouses for the HTC Vive are also not sensors, but rather provide information that is tracked by the control wands and the headset.
Please read https://gizmodo.com/this-is-how-valve-s ... 1705356768
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True, but the effect is the same. Something external has to be set up in order for the system work. And it's a pain.
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Sorry, still confused! What I want is a wireless version of the current Rift. I want a big PC with real horsepower to drive it, not reduced complexity programs that run on presumably less capable built-in computer. It sounds like neither new device is quite that.
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brains really dont stop developing till early 20s just seeing what the crack babies & ritlin babies have become i shuuder at the vr baby generation really think it should be limited to adults... but bottom lines too important so that wont happen
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cartoons really where's your imagination?
cia, north korea, Russia anyone with some money can lock a kid(s) in a room from birth pop in the latest brain scrubbing app & create whatever they want & control em like puppets, theyll have no idea they even in the real world... turn girls into real live sex robots....
whole schools training kids how to use various weapons & train armies...when they done absolutely nothing else in their brain cuz it hasnt seen anything else without the need for actual arsenals, bullets, etc just a basement & $1,000ish
lunatics kidnapping folks & making super predators or just their own patsy so they dont get caught...
no need to drug & torture them program them exactly like a computer not even close to road runner & tom & jerry...
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That's what I'm more interested in. I have a rift now and k bought HDMI and USB extensions so I can move around more but I still don't want to be tethered while at the same time I don't want to lose the power a PC affords.
I'm also sad to see the analog sticks go. I know some people can't handle traditional fps controls in VR but I can and they are way more fun than teleporting which can easily be used to cheat. Hell I use it to cheat all the time in a couple games. Enemies get too close and suddenly I've teleported 30 feet away.
All I really want is higher resolution screens and wireless. They don't need to change anything else. I'll even still happily put sensors in my living room...just make the HMD wireless, make higher resolution screens and I'm.good. I even read another company came up with a way to remove the screen door effect without a resolution boost so license that too but please don't get rid of the sticks. The Oculus touch controllers are already excellent. Far better than the vives.
I suppose as long as everything supports osvr you could use any controller you want. I have plenty of games that don't "support" the Oculus and they work just fine.
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I'm 99.999% sure HTC Vive is already inside-out.
Valve's Base Stations paint the room with IR beams that sensors in SteamVR devices (currently just the Vive headset and controllers, IIRC) pick up. There are no sensors or cameras in the Base Stations, only in the wearable devices.
The Wii wand is also inside-out, though it's not VR. It's "sensor bar" is just a bunch of IR LEDs and position tracking is done via a camera in the wand.
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kids using this should be considered child abuse, im amased at the down votes, developing brains shouldnt be in fake worlds they should be developing their imagination...
this sound like something you want kids using?
Prolonged use should be avoided, as this could negatively impact
hand-eye coordination, balance, and multi-tasking ability.
video games used to be good for hand eye coordination....
im sure there will be plenty of medical uses for therapy under doctors recommendations but i think vr should be an adult only product but profit motive trumps childrens health...
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For me, the first priority would be ensuring separation of the display/tracking system from the actual computing hardware through a standardized interface, so that any VR head unit can be compatible with any computing unit.
A VR headset should be a pair of displays, some headphones and some head/hand/limb/eye tracking systems, preferably all interfaced through a single USB type-C cable, with a standard API. A separate unit should handle the computing part, and all headsets should be compatible with all computing units via the standardized API. The VR headset should be a display/interface peripheral that works with and system, not a closed system on its own.
As far as minimizing wire hassles, I could definitely see the appeal of a relatively light belt-mounted or pocketable system. I think that would be far better than integrating it directly into the headset, because you get the weight and heat generation of the battery, CPU and GPU away from your face, and I imagine for long term use it would be more comfortable to have a five pound device attached to your belt than your head.
Trying to keep it light enough and cool enough to comfortably strap it to your head would involve a serious compromise in computing power. Making it a separate belt unit with a standard interface means that the headset also can be plugged in to a higher end gaming PC (either stationary or in a backpack form-factor) for people who want more power. You buy one lightweight "just the display and sensors" headset, and you can use it with the lightweight belt-mounted system, or plug it into a high end stationary PC for seated racing, flight sim, or space sim games.
A short USB-C cable from the headset to the belt unit would in my opinion be a very tiny price to pay for reducing the headset weight and making it more universal rather than permanently tied to a single system.
They could sell it both as just the headset for people who want to use it with their existing gaming PC, and as a "headset + belt unit" stand-alone bundle for people who just want a simple plug-and-play system. I don't want to buy two separate VR headsets for these different tasks, I want to buy one headset that's best specs/price/comfort balance for me, and then use it on all my systems.
Personally, I'd like to see VR with full dual-4K resolution, solid 90fps, and max settings AAA game graphics quality. Based on the system specs (and power/heat dissipation) needed for a non-VR gaming PC to run AAA games at max settings on dual 4K monitors, I don't see anyone putting that kind of computing power into something light enough to comfortably wear on our heads anytime soon. Until then, being able to attach different computing devices to the headset for different games/tasks allows us the flexibility to strike the right balance between what we want and what's possible with the current technology.
Also, on a final note, I'm a little bit skeptical of the inside-out tracking. I'd much rather have the initial inconvenience of setting up external sensors if it allows more capability. I'd like to see VR with not just head and hand tracking, but also precise elbow, knee, foot, and waist tracking so it can maintain an accurate representation of your full body position at all times, plus eye and lip/jaw/face tracking built into the headset.
This would be very handy in multi-player environments, but I think it would also be really cool in a single player environment to have mirrors or other reflective surfaces that would allow you to actually see your VR avatar doing what you do, including matching your facial expressions, speech, and eye movements. I think this would greatly add to the sense of immersion, and of feeling like you are your in-game avatar, rather than being just a disembodied viewpoint in a virtual world.
Without accurate tracking, I think it could get disorienting if your in-game body doesn't do what you're really doing, and I'm not sure inside-out tracking will be able to reliably see what it needs to see to accomplish this.
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Sorry, I'd be all for kids using VR. To be clear, some ages are probably too young, but I'd be fine with them learning and playing in a virtual environment.
If they can learn to build a house, play tennis, explore the roman empire, drive a car in a completely safe environment surrounded by pillows and without spending thousands on expensive materials, then yes, I'd invest in that.
If they started to get confused about what is real and whats not, I'd cut them off, it doesn't seem complicated. I really don't think kids are going to develop bad eye coordination from playing tennis in a virtual world or balancing with a full face mask on.
I remember people making these arguments when I was a child about video games and TV. I became a game / software developer and a professional artist, I can run circle around less tech savvy people because I got into computers and games when I was young.
As an adult, I can draw photo-realistic paintings of imaginary locations, my obsession with virtual worlds didn't stunt my imagination at all. On the contrary I amassed strong drawing and digital creation skills early on so I could contribute to my favorite games with mods.
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so youre an adult & dont know what anctedotal means?
the vr companies state themselves under 13 it can mess up hand eye coordination, multi tasking, & balance... im sure the 14-17 year olds are gonna use it for learning not porn who needs to hide playboys in the woods have virtual gangbangs with all the most popular celebs.holo
youre very responsible arent you? well the vast majority of homes with people working multiple jobs are gonna just strap it on & not care how long just like they plopped them in front of the telly...
this tech is not 2d tom & jerry or even crappy 3d shrek its fully immersive worlds what happens when kids who toured the virtual rome visit the real rome & forget or be confused they cant teleport from the top and try to walk on air?
anyhoo its not like im trying to influence folks just hope i make it long enough to see how the vr babies turn out haha no more tiger moms pillow moms just fill a room with pillows strap on the vr theyll be fine, whats this link/door in virtual rome oh its a marqui de sade simulator 10 year old johnny will love it....
i dont know about you but i want my kids to grow into adults who can multitask, chew bubblegum & walk at the same time, balance & hand eye coeridination is kinda important in the REAL world.
dont recall warnings like that on my cartoons or video games...
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I know what "anecdotal" means, that's how you spell it by the way. I read your all lowercase typed response, incorrect use ampersands and talk about kids forgetting gravity exists... You know VR doesn't negate gravity right? Just to be clear, kids and adults will experience gravity the entire time they wear the headset, they won't float around the living room.
I've realized that you're just looking for a nonsense fight, so I am going to stop, and I apologize for getting involved.
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But, would the VR work for people who have hair in their head?
The article does not show that
The article does not show that
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then stop the warning on the vr package states under 13 can cause hand eye cooridnation, balance, & multi tasking problems.
id say inflicting that on kids should be child abuse many disagree eitherway im gonna enjoy the show a whole generation of stumbling bumbling fools who dont know which world is real, least the cars will drive em to whatever couch their surfing on that week
i didnt say it the companies did & i dont care enough to correct or spell check its the internet tomorrow its in the ether never to be read again
ive never been paid for spelling grammar punctuation but i have been for counting, multi tasking, being able to balance myself, and coorinating beteeen my hands & eyes, my business agreements are of course proofed ; ) i tend to notice when thats the counter point well lets just say facts are facts not antedotal
spelt rong tu timez
not trying to argue either just stating whats printed on the manual that someone else posted when i asked a legit question about where are the doctors at on the issue but was downvoted to oblivion for been concerned about devoloping kids brains
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Are you sure it's too weak?I know, it kind of sucks. I am a PC gamer, but my hardware is a few years old so despite playing like Arkham Knight and GTA:V fine it's a little weak for VR. Convincing the wife I need a $300 video card is one thing. Convincing her I need $300 card and a $500ish headset is another.
Here's mine :
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 1116639906
(Yes, that's a last-generation AMD CPU, the infamous Bulldozer series. And not even one of the most powerful ones. I guess that having 8 cores *does* help in this case, even despite their architecture not becoming standard, unlike Intel's.)
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A "VR backpack" seems to be the best compromise to me.
You know, one of those for climbing that leave your shoulders relatively free :
P.S.: Never mind, HP has *already* developed some and is about to sell them!
https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker ... ackpack-pc
https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker ... -announced
http://www8.hp.com/us/en/campaigns/vrba ... rview.html
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Thanks for the comments about Vive's tracking stations. I have updated the opening text to clarify how those work (and how Oculus Santa Cruz differs from them), AND I have added impressions of ANOTHER SC demo that Oculus was kind enough to sneak me into. I also looked closer at the demo room's layout, as per some requests in the comments.
<3 to y'all.
<3 to y'all.
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Same question as in the Oculus Go article :
Why is the "Hand-friendly fit." picture showing the old Oculus Touch controllers?
Why is the "Hand-friendly fit." picture showing the old Oculus Touch controllers?
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My note was more that the author of the article has misrepresented how the technology works. I do note that the author updated the article, though they still incorrectly categorize the HTC Vive as not using "inside out tracking", which it arguably does (albiet with external devices as noted).
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Strictly speaking, the principle differentiation of Inside-Out vs Outside-In tracking systems is what serves as the orienting reference, or even more simply, what is doing the "looking".
The original Oculus Rift featured a "Constellation" of IR LEDs served as a reference to fixed external cameras. The reference in this case is the headset, with the tracking performed by external cameras pointed at the headset. There are several cameras looking at the headset, hence, Outside-In.
The HTC Vive is an example of inside-out tracking, though it's just not a fully generalized case. The Vive headset has several IR receivers that are designed to only process the structured IR output of the fixed "Lighthouse" base stations. The base stations serve as the references for the headset. In other words, the Vive headset looks at the base stations to figure out where it is, hence, Inside-Out.
The holy grail of VR is generic inside-out tracking, but that's probably going to need some local AI-enhanced image processors that assist in determining reliable reference points in addition to highlighting temporary obstacles/hazards.
The original Oculus Rift featured a "Constellation" of IR LEDs served as a reference to fixed external cameras. The reference in this case is the headset, with the tracking performed by external cameras pointed at the headset. There are several cameras looking at the headset, hence, Outside-In.
The HTC Vive is an example of inside-out tracking, though it's just not a fully generalized case. The Vive headset has several IR receivers that are designed to only process the structured IR output of the fixed "Lighthouse" base stations. The base stations serve as the references for the headset. In other words, the Vive headset looks at the base stations to figure out where it is, hence, Inside-Out.
The holy grail of VR is generic inside-out tracking, but that's probably going to need some local AI-enhanced image processors that assist in determining reliable reference points in addition to highlighting temporary obstacles/hazards.
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Only one question: when is open VR API coming which is open enough to develop on any platform?
Or in other words: does Oculus attempt vendor lock ins (of any kind) or not?
Or in other words: does Oculus attempt vendor lock ins (of any kind) or not?
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Geeks care about inside-out versus outside-in. The general public cares about "easy setup, only the headset needed, no external sensor/camera/station/whatever required" whatever the technology is.
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This (the whole post). Rarely have I agreed so completely with a long post, but I think you nailed it.
I assume there is additional complexity due to headset sensors feeding back info too, but I agree that external sensors are a good option for many of us, especially if we're running off a powerful PC.
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You probably already can (assuming CPU/GPU compatibility), considering that Battlefield 2 was released in 2005... but you probably don't want to : "Traditional" FPS controls are nausea-inducing in VR.
Check out CyberThreat for a FPS experimenting with various locomotion options in VR.
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Ok, I googled "middle out", found this video, and now will have to watch Silicon Valley in its entirety, but that still hasn't answered the question of what "middle out" was besides a compression algorithm, which I don't see the relation to the discussion (and fire extinguishers?)?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rhdOt9bOHE (mildly NSFW)
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The Rift is designed to hang from the top/back of your head, not clamp to your face like ski goggles (unlike DK1 and DK2). If you're walking away from Rift sessions with a red ring on your face or feel pressure on your face during use, I'd adjust your straps and move it down further onto the back of your head.
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For one, the price is not known yet. Also, the article states that the demos shown were already of higher fidelity than most gearVR games. Keep in mind this is still in development so just imagine the possibilities of the final product that will come to be.
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