Why are we at war

What great bursts of insight. You folks are SHARP!! Study Caffine's list, it is so correct, and nearly complete. Kimiko, Ashley B, Thandrend, and literly every one that responded to this. Great thoughts. Isrial play a far greater part that any wish to admit.
Many on the inside know that Dick Cheney was more of a driving force that any right now can see.
We have to look at the fact of information gathering, evesdropping, phone records etc. Go more for election control, than terrorist.

 

Well Thorny, the way I see it, the media, and oil companys run this country! You can't do a thing without one of them being involved....I'm going to leave this, like this. Because I don't have the time right now, and really want to gather my thoughts about what I want to say.

 

All of the above perhaps but I'd still add one more. Part of the reason we are there is to. balance Halibiurton's books because otherwise what went on inside haliburton would have made ENRON look like shoplifting.

Before Dick Cheney took over haliburton we called them the red sea and they were just about the most impressive thing (or operation) you could see hit a drilling rig.
now we sum it up like this. A Woman called the police to report she had been raped by a haliburton hand. The cops said they were on their way but wanted to know what made her think the guy was a haliburton hand. After some hesitation she finally said; "Well, I had to help him."

 

In broad terms:

First goal: Ensure that Hussein cannot supply WMD to terrorists. Stop Oil-for-food graft. Stop Hussein persecution of Kurds and other Iraqis.

This goal was obviously accomplished.

Second goal: Help Iraq establish itself as a stable Democracy.

Obviously a work in progress. The Democracy has been established, but outside of the Kurdish areas, it's none too stable. I think winning will be established when the death toll of terrorist bombings, kidnappings, and general murder more or less stops, or at least becomes an infrequent occurence.

 

I just clicked on unclehomer to see where and what he was about and Doc's profile came up this has happened with other profiles I've looked at. Sorry to get off the true comments.

 

Wasn't the first goal accomplished by the fact that there were no WMD in the first place? And given that, couldn't it have been just as effectively achieved by, say, not starting an illegal war of aggression?

Just a thought.

 

WMD was not the exclusive reason for the invasion, and two of the other reasons cited for going to war with Iraq would not have been achieved without invading and removing Saddam from power.

About the WMD, had we known that there were no WMD, possibly we could have let the other stuff slide and let Saddam maintain status quo. Unfortunately, Saddam, for reasons known only to him refused to comply with the UN resolutions regarding WMD inspections. Even on the eve of the invasion, Hans Blix could not report Saddam's compliance with UN weapons inspectors and neither could he assert Saddam had gotten rid of his WMD. Why Saddam stone-walled the inspectors when he had nothing to hide is anyone's guess, but it is not the behavior one expects of someone who has nothing to hide. Given that background plus that fact that every major intelligence organization in the world believed that Saddam did still possess WMD, invasion was deemed necessary. Personally, I wish Saddam had given Hans Blix and his weapons inspectors have all the access that they had requested. If Blix, and therefore the UN, had been able to give Saddam a clean sheet on WMD, as opposed to making statements along the lines of, "We're making some progress but have not received compolete cooperation.", the political hurdles might have been just enough higher that we would have not invaded.

Like it or hate it, there was nothing illegal about the invasion. When we kicked him out of Kuwait, a war fought under a UN Resolution, we stopped short of removing him from power. We instead chose to end the war in a conditional cease-fire. Saddam was allowed to retain control of Iraq by agreeing to a variety of conditions including allowing UN weapons inspectors free access. During the 12 years following that cease-fire, Saddam violated most of those conditions, including most importantly and most often by denying the UN weapons inspectors free access. By violating the cease-fire conditions, the cease-fire becomes null and void, thus allowing a resumption of hostilities.

 

I think that it's way to early to give an accurate assessment to something so complex as what this has turned out to be. I am an Indep. voter that was once a JFK Democrat during the early days of his administration. I was just a young and impressionable Kennedy fan who believed in an American society that with the youth and vigor of this new President would change the world in a positive way for all peoples on earth. Well we know what happened to that dream and although Johson was able to fulfill some of the Camelot dreams socially, the JFK legacy would forever be about VietNam. That was as I remember the virtual beginning point of where we are now. The incessant arguing and bickering about who was right or wrong. What "might have been" if Dallas didn't happen.How it was really this admins fault for "escalating" and yeah but it was that guys fault for...........all the while my brethren who had a lot more at stake in the war than most were dying in some shit hole and for what? It's all happening once again with the ugly and vicious attacks being waged by people who shouild know better. Pissing on each other to the point of once again our young and brave warriors are being killed and maimed and for what? I can tell you this from my personal experiences of being in a very unpopular war, the only people that are suffering are our best and brightest over "there". If everyone wants to continue this insane dialogue about Chaney's Haliburton influence or worse in my opinion this equally insane attacks on Bush's intelligence, honesty or virtue- the one thing I can tell you from experience, it has a negative effect on our people over in that cess pool. Saying that you support the efforts of the soldiers and yet screeching and accusing to the point where we are now "stuck" yet again will not shorten the war nor will it clean up our image around the world. I am not a George Bush fan. I did not and would not vote for him. I am a big fan, however , of America and the youngsters fighting this war a long way from home. I would like to see every one of the empty skirted and empty shirted political hacks that are as responsible as Bush for not having an answer available when asked what they would do differently to be tossed out of office on their asses. Career politicians should be an exception rather than the rule They are as much to blame for this sorry state of affairs as Bush is? I'm no neophyte politically. I understand the rules about pissing on the legs of whoever is currently in ofc. However, when the lives of our troops become lost in the shouting and accusatory voices keep getting louder rather than offering other choises, the troops suffer. When they become as "important" as Bush's I.Q or what profits did Haliburton make last quarter, than we stay stuck. Thinking that we would just cut and run when the next liar takes office is absurd thinking. We will be a presence there for as long as we think necessary once this is done. If you think that all the bullshit, lies and double dealing will end when the new admin takes over , I suggest you look at what that thinking did to the Johnson Admin and the Nixon Admin sfter JFK's murder.

 

I think the whole business of war and peace is dictated to whoever is the President-of -the -day. I believe Doc has it partially right when he suggests that someone else is pulling the strings for everyone on this planet. for years there has been hints of foreign banking interest that has so corrupted our economy and our "money" that we hacve indeed become a debtor nation to someone somewhere. You really want to know who "they" are? Well it's been right out in the open for us to see plain and clear for the past 88 yrs. It's called The Federal Reserve Board. They own us lock,stock and completely. Yeah, hard to wrap your head arounde that one huh? What if I got silly and also added to their portfolio the ownership,mgmnt and control of every major news organizations in this country. Yep....to far fetched. I know.........Well what if I said that they are the owners of every major Television and cable news network in America?......Never could happen, right? Whassat about just for the hell of it and because i like to start rumors, if I told you that they have purcghased every bit of debt that was held against us thus making us a debtor nation to whom............Yeah, The Feds. Preposterous....insane accusations........totally without proof?......Do a word search for who owns the federal reserve.......than do another searchtype in the federal reserve board; an astounding exposure 1934....after you reciover from those revelations and just to make the whole fucking thing real enough for you to naybge pull your heads out of the sand, do another wsearch that will lead you down a dark,ugly passage way that ends with a Presidents brains being blown out in Dallas in 1962.........Ya gotta give the devil his dues boys. tthey kept pointing to that "grassy knoll" for so long we actually forgot that when dealing with this type of conspiracy believe nothing the media or gov't tells you. The reason the feds killed Kennedy.Well go to the jfk assassination and pretend you are the secret service investigating this murder. WQouldn't you want to find out who stands to gain the most with him gone? Motive ways and means? Check on a document that was awaiting his return from Dallas that he was going to sign and would have immediately put some very powerful people out of business.........executive article 11110. After doing the searches; you tell me Who Killed JfK? Who owns the USA? How free is Bush or any of us to do the right thing? Now when you will finally admit that we have been had by a foreign banking cartel that will soon sink this pretend economy by ordering the fiat money that they print and sell to our giv't to be "valued"......it is as worthless as a smile on Hilarys face folks. Why? Because when we surrendered control of our finances to the house De Rothschilds and the Bank Of England they had what they wanted every since the humiliation of 1776......control of the wayward child called the USA. Oh and the gold that we used to control in various locations that insured we would always be on a gold or silver standard. Yeah well about that missing gold.........France, Germany and England might be good for the bulk of our prec ious metals being "missing"....Ain't this fun guys? Oh don't want to believe something so far fetched? Than it will always be a Bush's, Clinton's,Kennedys, Nixons fault for everything huh? Did it ever occure to any one that they are simply doing there masters work and doing it quite well....when you own everything that could report such things as their possible involvement in our demise, would you allow any negative news to be reported? The jig is gonna be up soon then we can do whatever the birds do when it's head ain't in the sand. Oh yeah we will go back to blaming everone but our own sorry lazy ass selves for allowing the crime of forever to have occured right under our beeks

 

I'm trying really hard to understand Possum's point of view here, and the closest I can come to it is this:

Yes, politicians are all corrupt, lying bastards, and there's an unholy conspiracy of international bankers and financiers to control everything that happens...BUT....if troops are in the field, we shouldn't express any of this, because it will hurt their morale.

The logical extension of this line of reasoning is that all George Bush has to do is put troops in harm's way and leave them there, and nobody can ever criticize him or his decisions ever again.

Sorry, I'm not buying it.

As for violating U.N. resolutions, it seems we ignore the U.N. when we choose to, and embrace it when it serves our purposes. Do you know how many U.N. resolutions have been violated by Israel, or by the U.S., for that matter?

 

Aimen Possum...Aimen!, The gov is nothing but smoke and mirrors, they get our dumb asses looking one way, and blind side us on the other. Who is blindsiding us you ask, Media, Oil, and those Corporate basturds, and all the outsourcing of our jobs!
Well when all is said and done...whos going to suffer for it, us! The people of the U.S., and be prepaired it's a lot closer than you think!
Have any of you noticed that the prices of everything is going up...everything but your
paycheck that is.
I've realize my self, that I, (well my family) went from middle class to upper poor, again. And I started at the bottom, and struggled to get were I am
for what...to get knocked back down! But this time it's different, because this time it's not a matter of blowing the boss...so to speak!
This time it's shit out of my control, and I don't like it one bit!
Well people we are just about ready to have a ton of brick tossed on our heads, I just hope some of us are out of the way, when they start dropping!
Doc.

 

Whoa man. Whoa-ho-ho-ho-ho man!. Paragraphs are totally your friend. I'm with you (well maybe, I didn't read the whole post because it was making my eyes hurt) but the elipse, the "...", totally doesn't make up for the use of a hard return.

Anyway, continue on.

-S-

P.S. Not that you need my permission of course, just sayin'.

 

Sadly it's true. Also it's a push to have an American controled global government. What we're doing with "democracy" is basically what N.Korea and Russia tried doing with Communism.
Cept since we're America, people don't see this. "This is America, we'd never do anything like that." We are, have and we'll keep doing it til we hit our goal.

 

Well at first we got a dictator out. Next we put in a democracy. Now we have to clean up the mess that democracy brought.

 

We put in a form of government these people are not used to, changing their whole lifestyle and how everything is run. You cant just invade a country, say "we dont like how you're handling things so we're gonna fix it" and call it just.

 

Supposedly are mission in Iraq is to stop terrorism and find those wmd's. It seems they hid those very well. Bush is not fooling anyone. His war is a personal vendetta stemming from when daddy was in office. What a coincidence, Cheney has interest in Haliburton. I would be for the war if I felt that he we over their because Bush really has the best interest of our country in mind. I do believe we are there for his own personal reasons.

 

Oh come on, does anyone really believe this is some sort of daddy revenge? Honestly. Of all the things it's not, that has got to be in the top five. "You threatened my Pa, I've got to bomb yer country!"

Speaking abilities aside, Bush is not stupid. Don't take it to mean that I'm siding with him, because I'm not, just admiring the skills of the enemy. He's aligned himself with some very smart people and he's pulled off some things that no stupid person could do. Whether you like him or not, you have to agree that he's a clever bastard.

-S-

 

I don't find him either smart OR clever. I think he's a creation, just as Pinnochio was the creation of Gepetto. They needed a front man, and could have used almost anyone for the purpose. Everything he does is staged, all the way down to those brush-cutting photo ops at that movie-set ranch of his.

But I'll give him this much...he's played his part well, except for all the times he lost his place in the script pr couldn't pronounce the big words.

 

I do admire him for making decisions and standing by them no matter what people think of him. And I do not recall saying that it was revenge. What would it be revenge for...kicking their ass the first time. I think he just wanted to make a statement like his daddy.

 

You used the word Vendetta. Vendetta means: noun a blood feud in which the family of a murdered person seeks vengeance on the murderer or the murderer's family. • a prolonged bitter quarrel with or campaign against someone : he has accused the British media of pursuing a vendetta against him.

So by using the word vendetta, you implied revenge, by the very definition. I love dictionaries. And I love that I didn't need one the first time around. Sure sure, Bush Sr. didn't actually die, but Saddam did put a hit out on him so it still applies.

-S-